Can a kingdom be destabilised by an influx of enemy gold?










7














A few years ago I read a role-playing game supplement that described a cold war between kingdom Good and kingdom Bad. Both kingdoms used metal coins with silver as the most common followed by gold. Kingdom Bad planned to flood kingdom Good with gold coins, disrupting Good's economy in preparation for Bad's invasion. So far as I remember, Bad planned to use real gold coins and not counterfeit ones.



To me it seems that all Bad is doing is emptying its coffers to fill Good's, essentially paying for Good's defenses, weapons, and mercenaries.



However, I'm not sure if there's something I'm missing. Is this, in fact, really a reasonable plot? Can this style of economic warfare somehow destroy kingdom Good?



The setting was low magic, high realism, high medieval



Bad has about twice the population of good.
Bad has spent vast amounts on their army but have a comparatively small navy.
Good and Bad are separated by a narrow sea.










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  • Queue the Rick and Morty ep where Rick sparks the Federation's downfall...
    – EvilSnack
    yesterday






  • 1




    So, does anyone know how much money China has poured into the US as inward investment in the past four decades then? and should we be worried by that :)
    – Pelinore
    yesterday







  • 1




    Not "enemy gold", but read about south american gold in spain here: history.stackexchange.com/questions/9060/…
    – Guntram Blohm
    yesterday






  • 1




    Research the Spanish empire around 1600, Phillip the 2nd, and their influx of gold from the new world and how it affected their kingdom.
    – Chloe
    yesterday















7














A few years ago I read a role-playing game supplement that described a cold war between kingdom Good and kingdom Bad. Both kingdoms used metal coins with silver as the most common followed by gold. Kingdom Bad planned to flood kingdom Good with gold coins, disrupting Good's economy in preparation for Bad's invasion. So far as I remember, Bad planned to use real gold coins and not counterfeit ones.



To me it seems that all Bad is doing is emptying its coffers to fill Good's, essentially paying for Good's defenses, weapons, and mercenaries.



However, I'm not sure if there's something I'm missing. Is this, in fact, really a reasonable plot? Can this style of economic warfare somehow destroy kingdom Good?



The setting was low magic, high realism, high medieval



Bad has about twice the population of good.
Bad has spent vast amounts on their army but have a comparatively small navy.
Good and Bad are separated by a narrow sea.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Obak is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.



















  • Queue the Rick and Morty ep where Rick sparks the Federation's downfall...
    – EvilSnack
    yesterday






  • 1




    So, does anyone know how much money China has poured into the US as inward investment in the past four decades then? and should we be worried by that :)
    – Pelinore
    yesterday







  • 1




    Not "enemy gold", but read about south american gold in spain here: history.stackexchange.com/questions/9060/…
    – Guntram Blohm
    yesterday






  • 1




    Research the Spanish empire around 1600, Phillip the 2nd, and their influx of gold from the new world and how it affected their kingdom.
    – Chloe
    yesterday













7












7








7


2





A few years ago I read a role-playing game supplement that described a cold war between kingdom Good and kingdom Bad. Both kingdoms used metal coins with silver as the most common followed by gold. Kingdom Bad planned to flood kingdom Good with gold coins, disrupting Good's economy in preparation for Bad's invasion. So far as I remember, Bad planned to use real gold coins and not counterfeit ones.



To me it seems that all Bad is doing is emptying its coffers to fill Good's, essentially paying for Good's defenses, weapons, and mercenaries.



However, I'm not sure if there's something I'm missing. Is this, in fact, really a reasonable plot? Can this style of economic warfare somehow destroy kingdom Good?



The setting was low magic, high realism, high medieval



Bad has about twice the population of good.
Bad has spent vast amounts on their army but have a comparatively small navy.
Good and Bad are separated by a narrow sea.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Obak is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











A few years ago I read a role-playing game supplement that described a cold war between kingdom Good and kingdom Bad. Both kingdoms used metal coins with silver as the most common followed by gold. Kingdom Bad planned to flood kingdom Good with gold coins, disrupting Good's economy in preparation for Bad's invasion. So far as I remember, Bad planned to use real gold coins and not counterfeit ones.



To me it seems that all Bad is doing is emptying its coffers to fill Good's, essentially paying for Good's defenses, weapons, and mercenaries.



However, I'm not sure if there's something I'm missing. Is this, in fact, really a reasonable plot? Can this style of economic warfare somehow destroy kingdom Good?



The setting was low magic, high realism, high medieval



Bad has about twice the population of good.
Bad has spent vast amounts on their army but have a comparatively small navy.
Good and Bad are separated by a narrow sea.







economy






share|improve this question









New contributor




Obak is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









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edited yesterday





















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asked yesterday









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  • Queue the Rick and Morty ep where Rick sparks the Federation's downfall...
    – EvilSnack
    yesterday






  • 1




    So, does anyone know how much money China has poured into the US as inward investment in the past four decades then? and should we be worried by that :)
    – Pelinore
    yesterday







  • 1




    Not "enemy gold", but read about south american gold in spain here: history.stackexchange.com/questions/9060/…
    – Guntram Blohm
    yesterday






  • 1




    Research the Spanish empire around 1600, Phillip the 2nd, and their influx of gold from the new world and how it affected their kingdom.
    – Chloe
    yesterday
















  • Queue the Rick and Morty ep where Rick sparks the Federation's downfall...
    – EvilSnack
    yesterday






  • 1




    So, does anyone know how much money China has poured into the US as inward investment in the past four decades then? and should we be worried by that :)
    – Pelinore
    yesterday







  • 1




    Not "enemy gold", but read about south american gold in spain here: history.stackexchange.com/questions/9060/…
    – Guntram Blohm
    yesterday






  • 1




    Research the Spanish empire around 1600, Phillip the 2nd, and their influx of gold from the new world and how it affected their kingdom.
    – Chloe
    yesterday















Queue the Rick and Morty ep where Rick sparks the Federation's downfall...
– EvilSnack
yesterday




Queue the Rick and Morty ep where Rick sparks the Federation's downfall...
– EvilSnack
yesterday




1




1




So, does anyone know how much money China has poured into the US as inward investment in the past four decades then? and should we be worried by that :)
– Pelinore
yesterday





So, does anyone know how much money China has poured into the US as inward investment in the past four decades then? and should we be worried by that :)
– Pelinore
yesterday





1




1




Not "enemy gold", but read about south american gold in spain here: history.stackexchange.com/questions/9060/…
– Guntram Blohm
yesterday




Not "enemy gold", but read about south american gold in spain here: history.stackexchange.com/questions/9060/…
– Guntram Blohm
yesterday




1




1




Research the Spanish empire around 1600, Phillip the 2nd, and their influx of gold from the new world and how it affected their kingdom.
– Chloe
yesterday




Research the Spanish empire around 1600, Phillip the 2nd, and their influx of gold from the new world and how it affected their kingdom.
– Chloe
yesterday










7 Answers
7






active

oldest

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0














It depends on who has more gold/Wealth. If kingdom bad had much more wealth than kingdom good; then yes it is possible. Then there is also the issue of gold reserves. I am guessing both countries have access to gold mines. If kingdom Bad just discovered a huge deposit of gold then they can indeed pull off this strategy. In fact, there is an African king that had so much gold, he gave it away in the streets.
Richest person in history



From the side of Kingdom good; they need to have some sort of central banking system to monitor inflation rates if they want to defend such an act. They can find ways to slow down the influx. (Check purses at borders and confiscate coins) but ultimately gold coins are easy to hide.



With that being said this is not a good strategy. Kingdom Bad can use the gold for their own troops, to hire mercenaries, hire assasins, bribe officials/ generals from kingdom good. Literally, any other strategy would be vastly better.






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  • Yeah, I also drew paralels to Mansa Musa of Mali, the inflation of the late roman empire and the german ww2 plot to print false Brittish pound notes. But it never occired ro me as legitimate deliberate strategy.
    – Obak
    yesterday


















21














Yes, definitely, but it takes a lot of gold and a lot of time.



Basically, when a country has a large, long-term influx of wealth, the wealth-generating part of the economy will tend to drive out everything else. This happened to the Spanish Empire in real life: New World gold and silver poured into Spain and Spain spent it. The part that was spent internally caused inflation. The part that was spent to buy imports drove domestic producers out of business. In time, all that wealth pouring in meant that Spain had a big colonial enterprise, but was deeply backwards in industry and trade. And that doomed the Spanish Empire. It's sometimes called the "Spanish Curse".



There's a question on the History Stack Exchange which deals with this in more detail.



Actually, any resource that you just dig up (or steal from the people who dug it up) has the same effect if you get enough of it for long enough. (Oil-rich countries today suffer from the same problem.) The Wikipedia article on the "Resource Curse" does a nice job discussing it.



So if Bad has enough gold and is willing to pour it into Good for a generation or two, Good will be ripe for the plucking.






share|improve this answer




















  • Bad don’t really have a surplus of gold in forms of mines or trade. Bad is a totalitarian state while Good is feudal. Bad have twice the population of Good and Bad has also spent a lot on their army.
    – Obak
    yesterday







  • 3




    Some countries do manage to stay out of this trap. An example would be Norway, a country that is very rich in Oil, but puts a very large percentage of their profits into a sovereign wealth fund which is treated as an endowment.
    – Chuu
    yesterday











  • Yup. They read economic history and decided not to spend most of what they collected. It seems to be working.
    – Mark Olson
    yesterday






  • 1




    This sort of sounds like another way of talking about a single product banana republic, I'm also suddenly feeling this might be a worrying alternative way to look at the UK today & it's primarily finance orientated service sector exports, now I feel a little glum, I'm sure you didn't mean to do that to me though :)
    – Pelinore
    yesterday







  • 1




    @Sulthan Not at all. Bad’s industry would flourish, while Good’s would shrink. The standard of living in Good would be higher than in Bad, but only so long as the gold continues to flow. Then comes the reckoning. (It’s a crappy way to wage warfare, but it’s workable if you can stay the course. Costs a lot, too.)
    – Mark Olson
    yesterday


















4














This is exactly what happened when Mansa Musa went on pilgrimage to Mecca



From Wikipedia



Musa's journey was documented by several eyewitnesses along his route, who were in awe of his wealth and extensive procession, and records exist in a variety of sources, including journals, oral accounts, and histories. Musa is known to have visited the Mamluk sultan of Egypt, Al-Nasir Muhammad, in July 1324. However, Musa's generous actions inadvertently devastated the economies of the regions through which he passed. In the cities of Cairo, Medina, and Mecca, the sudden influx of gold devalued the metal for the next decade. Prices on goods and wares greatly inflated. To rectify the gold market, on his way back from Mecca, Musa borrowed all the gold he could carry from money-lenders in Cairo at high interest. This is the only time recorded in history that one man directly controlled the price of gold in the Mediterranean.






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    It depends on how it's spend, and the culture of the good kingdom.



    There was a King in history who went to another country and spend a crapton of gold. This caused the value of gold in that country to go down and with the value of each coin tied to the value of gold it meant everything needed more coins to buy. 2 copper or whatever for a full bread before the gold came in? Now it costs 4 silver. The people who had sold stuff to the King and had gold didnt have too much problems with this, but anyone else would suddenly need to pay multitudes more without earning more or having more in reserve.



    Suppose the bad kingdom tries to exploit this: it pays
    specific groups of people money for wares and stuff, and ignores other groups. Just living becomes more expensive for everyone which will cause strife in the population. If the divide grows quickly enough and large enough people could revolt, destabilizing the country and making it an easier prey.



    While you are at it, buy specific goods. Buying weapons might not be the smartest move as the sellers could just have an easier time getting more weapons. Buying all the ore and resources to build weapons could deplete the good kingdom's resources while destabilizing the economy, and if you offer a higher price for the resources than good kingdom then the people who own the resources would gladly hold out and wait for a bad kingdom guy to come for their goods.



    Other resources to buy would be food, it might be the best choice. Buying food directly means more stockpiles for you, higher food prices for good kingdom coupled with massive inflation and less food for good kingdom to prosecute a war. Even better: if good kingdom tries to prosecute a war food prices will rise anyway on top of scarcity and inflation, it would probably kill the good kingdom the fastest.



    Lastly a risky option: pay the military of good kingdom. If you are rich the rewards of combat pay suddenly is a lot less motivation to risk your life. A portion of Soldiers of good kingdom might just leave when push comes to shove and try to be alive and spending somewhere.






    share|improve this answer




























      1














      As a short-term move, the Land of Bad might buy up some crucial resource, such as food, ores and even weapons, haul them out of the Land of Good—and then blockade it.



      Under ordinary circumstances, the Land of Good would now have a lot of gold and use that to import whatever it needs. But, while it’s under a military embargo, it can’t do that. It’s now facing a sudden and unexpected shortage of critical resources, and all it has is a bunch of useless gold that it can’t eat or fight with.



      The King of the Good had better have foreign allies and good credit. Although maybe the citizens of Bad will happily take gold and trade with the “enemy.”






      share|improve this answer




























        1














        You can play on exchange rates of gold and silver in respective countries.



        And yes, with a complication twist it happened before, see the Opium Wars.



        Simplified, China was selling tea only for silver. When the cheap silver sources in Europe and European colonies was depleted, silver became more expensive (in gold), but China did not care. Hence, the driver of the Opium Wars. The basic scheme was:



        • let's buy opium in India for gold, cheaply

        • smuggle opium to China, either selling it for a lot of silver or exchanging it to tea directly

        • buy tea for cheaply acquired silver

        • bring back some (expensive) tea and (expensive) silver to the metropoles

        • sell them for gold.





        share|improve this answer






























          0














          Yes, imagine that gold represents something like the king's favour.



          There's limited gold, the king owns it all, and you need gold to pay your taxes. Thus you need to work for the king to get the gold you need to pay your taxes.



          If there's suddenly another source of gold, people no longer work for the king, etc.






          share|improve this answer




















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            7 Answers
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            It depends on who has more gold/Wealth. If kingdom bad had much more wealth than kingdom good; then yes it is possible. Then there is also the issue of gold reserves. I am guessing both countries have access to gold mines. If kingdom Bad just discovered a huge deposit of gold then they can indeed pull off this strategy. In fact, there is an African king that had so much gold, he gave it away in the streets.
            Richest person in history



            From the side of Kingdom good; they need to have some sort of central banking system to monitor inflation rates if they want to defend such an act. They can find ways to slow down the influx. (Check purses at borders and confiscate coins) but ultimately gold coins are easy to hide.



            With that being said this is not a good strategy. Kingdom Bad can use the gold for their own troops, to hire mercenaries, hire assasins, bribe officials/ generals from kingdom good. Literally, any other strategy would be vastly better.






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




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            • Yeah, I also drew paralels to Mansa Musa of Mali, the inflation of the late roman empire and the german ww2 plot to print false Brittish pound notes. But it never occired ro me as legitimate deliberate strategy.
              – Obak
              yesterday















            0














            It depends on who has more gold/Wealth. If kingdom bad had much more wealth than kingdom good; then yes it is possible. Then there is also the issue of gold reserves. I am guessing both countries have access to gold mines. If kingdom Bad just discovered a huge deposit of gold then they can indeed pull off this strategy. In fact, there is an African king that had so much gold, he gave it away in the streets.
            Richest person in history



            From the side of Kingdom good; they need to have some sort of central banking system to monitor inflation rates if they want to defend such an act. They can find ways to slow down the influx. (Check purses at borders and confiscate coins) but ultimately gold coins are easy to hide.



            With that being said this is not a good strategy. Kingdom Bad can use the gold for their own troops, to hire mercenaries, hire assasins, bribe officials/ generals from kingdom good. Literally, any other strategy would be vastly better.






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            Sam Joseph is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.

















            • Yeah, I also drew paralels to Mansa Musa of Mali, the inflation of the late roman empire and the german ww2 plot to print false Brittish pound notes. But it never occired ro me as legitimate deliberate strategy.
              – Obak
              yesterday













            0












            0








            0






            It depends on who has more gold/Wealth. If kingdom bad had much more wealth than kingdom good; then yes it is possible. Then there is also the issue of gold reserves. I am guessing both countries have access to gold mines. If kingdom Bad just discovered a huge deposit of gold then they can indeed pull off this strategy. In fact, there is an African king that had so much gold, he gave it away in the streets.
            Richest person in history



            From the side of Kingdom good; they need to have some sort of central banking system to monitor inflation rates if they want to defend such an act. They can find ways to slow down the influx. (Check purses at borders and confiscate coins) but ultimately gold coins are easy to hide.



            With that being said this is not a good strategy. Kingdom Bad can use the gold for their own troops, to hire mercenaries, hire assasins, bribe officials/ generals from kingdom good. Literally, any other strategy would be vastly better.






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            Sam Joseph is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            It depends on who has more gold/Wealth. If kingdom bad had much more wealth than kingdom good; then yes it is possible. Then there is also the issue of gold reserves. I am guessing both countries have access to gold mines. If kingdom Bad just discovered a huge deposit of gold then they can indeed pull off this strategy. In fact, there is an African king that had so much gold, he gave it away in the streets.
            Richest person in history



            From the side of Kingdom good; they need to have some sort of central banking system to monitor inflation rates if they want to defend such an act. They can find ways to slow down the influx. (Check purses at borders and confiscate coins) but ultimately gold coins are easy to hide.



            With that being said this is not a good strategy. Kingdom Bad can use the gold for their own troops, to hire mercenaries, hire assasins, bribe officials/ generals from kingdom good. Literally, any other strategy would be vastly better.







            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            Sam Joseph is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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            • Yeah, I also drew paralels to Mansa Musa of Mali, the inflation of the late roman empire and the german ww2 plot to print false Brittish pound notes. But it never occired ro me as legitimate deliberate strategy.
              – Obak
              yesterday
















            • Yeah, I also drew paralels to Mansa Musa of Mali, the inflation of the late roman empire and the german ww2 plot to print false Brittish pound notes. But it never occired ro me as legitimate deliberate strategy.
              – Obak
              yesterday















            Yeah, I also drew paralels to Mansa Musa of Mali, the inflation of the late roman empire and the german ww2 plot to print false Brittish pound notes. But it never occired ro me as legitimate deliberate strategy.
            – Obak
            yesterday




            Yeah, I also drew paralels to Mansa Musa of Mali, the inflation of the late roman empire and the german ww2 plot to print false Brittish pound notes. But it never occired ro me as legitimate deliberate strategy.
            – Obak
            yesterday











            21














            Yes, definitely, but it takes a lot of gold and a lot of time.



            Basically, when a country has a large, long-term influx of wealth, the wealth-generating part of the economy will tend to drive out everything else. This happened to the Spanish Empire in real life: New World gold and silver poured into Spain and Spain spent it. The part that was spent internally caused inflation. The part that was spent to buy imports drove domestic producers out of business. In time, all that wealth pouring in meant that Spain had a big colonial enterprise, but was deeply backwards in industry and trade. And that doomed the Spanish Empire. It's sometimes called the "Spanish Curse".



            There's a question on the History Stack Exchange which deals with this in more detail.



            Actually, any resource that you just dig up (or steal from the people who dug it up) has the same effect if you get enough of it for long enough. (Oil-rich countries today suffer from the same problem.) The Wikipedia article on the "Resource Curse" does a nice job discussing it.



            So if Bad has enough gold and is willing to pour it into Good for a generation or two, Good will be ripe for the plucking.






            share|improve this answer




















            • Bad don’t really have a surplus of gold in forms of mines or trade. Bad is a totalitarian state while Good is feudal. Bad have twice the population of Good and Bad has also spent a lot on their army.
              – Obak
              yesterday







            • 3




              Some countries do manage to stay out of this trap. An example would be Norway, a country that is very rich in Oil, but puts a very large percentage of their profits into a sovereign wealth fund which is treated as an endowment.
              – Chuu
              yesterday











            • Yup. They read economic history and decided not to spend most of what they collected. It seems to be working.
              – Mark Olson
              yesterday






            • 1




              This sort of sounds like another way of talking about a single product banana republic, I'm also suddenly feeling this might be a worrying alternative way to look at the UK today & it's primarily finance orientated service sector exports, now I feel a little glum, I'm sure you didn't mean to do that to me though :)
              – Pelinore
              yesterday







            • 1




              @Sulthan Not at all. Bad’s industry would flourish, while Good’s would shrink. The standard of living in Good would be higher than in Bad, but only so long as the gold continues to flow. Then comes the reckoning. (It’s a crappy way to wage warfare, but it’s workable if you can stay the course. Costs a lot, too.)
              – Mark Olson
              yesterday















            21














            Yes, definitely, but it takes a lot of gold and a lot of time.



            Basically, when a country has a large, long-term influx of wealth, the wealth-generating part of the economy will tend to drive out everything else. This happened to the Spanish Empire in real life: New World gold and silver poured into Spain and Spain spent it. The part that was spent internally caused inflation. The part that was spent to buy imports drove domestic producers out of business. In time, all that wealth pouring in meant that Spain had a big colonial enterprise, but was deeply backwards in industry and trade. And that doomed the Spanish Empire. It's sometimes called the "Spanish Curse".



            There's a question on the History Stack Exchange which deals with this in more detail.



            Actually, any resource that you just dig up (or steal from the people who dug it up) has the same effect if you get enough of it for long enough. (Oil-rich countries today suffer from the same problem.) The Wikipedia article on the "Resource Curse" does a nice job discussing it.



            So if Bad has enough gold and is willing to pour it into Good for a generation or two, Good will be ripe for the plucking.






            share|improve this answer




















            • Bad don’t really have a surplus of gold in forms of mines or trade. Bad is a totalitarian state while Good is feudal. Bad have twice the population of Good and Bad has also spent a lot on their army.
              – Obak
              yesterday







            • 3




              Some countries do manage to stay out of this trap. An example would be Norway, a country that is very rich in Oil, but puts a very large percentage of their profits into a sovereign wealth fund which is treated as an endowment.
              – Chuu
              yesterday











            • Yup. They read economic history and decided not to spend most of what they collected. It seems to be working.
              – Mark Olson
              yesterday






            • 1




              This sort of sounds like another way of talking about a single product banana republic, I'm also suddenly feeling this might be a worrying alternative way to look at the UK today & it's primarily finance orientated service sector exports, now I feel a little glum, I'm sure you didn't mean to do that to me though :)
              – Pelinore
              yesterday







            • 1




              @Sulthan Not at all. Bad’s industry would flourish, while Good’s would shrink. The standard of living in Good would be higher than in Bad, but only so long as the gold continues to flow. Then comes the reckoning. (It’s a crappy way to wage warfare, but it’s workable if you can stay the course. Costs a lot, too.)
              – Mark Olson
              yesterday













            21












            21








            21






            Yes, definitely, but it takes a lot of gold and a lot of time.



            Basically, when a country has a large, long-term influx of wealth, the wealth-generating part of the economy will tend to drive out everything else. This happened to the Spanish Empire in real life: New World gold and silver poured into Spain and Spain spent it. The part that was spent internally caused inflation. The part that was spent to buy imports drove domestic producers out of business. In time, all that wealth pouring in meant that Spain had a big colonial enterprise, but was deeply backwards in industry and trade. And that doomed the Spanish Empire. It's sometimes called the "Spanish Curse".



            There's a question on the History Stack Exchange which deals with this in more detail.



            Actually, any resource that you just dig up (or steal from the people who dug it up) has the same effect if you get enough of it for long enough. (Oil-rich countries today suffer from the same problem.) The Wikipedia article on the "Resource Curse" does a nice job discussing it.



            So if Bad has enough gold and is willing to pour it into Good for a generation or two, Good will be ripe for the plucking.






            share|improve this answer












            Yes, definitely, but it takes a lot of gold and a lot of time.



            Basically, when a country has a large, long-term influx of wealth, the wealth-generating part of the economy will tend to drive out everything else. This happened to the Spanish Empire in real life: New World gold and silver poured into Spain and Spain spent it. The part that was spent internally caused inflation. The part that was spent to buy imports drove domestic producers out of business. In time, all that wealth pouring in meant that Spain had a big colonial enterprise, but was deeply backwards in industry and trade. And that doomed the Spanish Empire. It's sometimes called the "Spanish Curse".



            There's a question on the History Stack Exchange which deals with this in more detail.



            Actually, any resource that you just dig up (or steal from the people who dug it up) has the same effect if you get enough of it for long enough. (Oil-rich countries today suffer from the same problem.) The Wikipedia article on the "Resource Curse" does a nice job discussing it.



            So if Bad has enough gold and is willing to pour it into Good for a generation or two, Good will be ripe for the plucking.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered yesterday









            Mark Olson

            9,98212243




            9,98212243











            • Bad don’t really have a surplus of gold in forms of mines or trade. Bad is a totalitarian state while Good is feudal. Bad have twice the population of Good and Bad has also spent a lot on their army.
              – Obak
              yesterday







            • 3




              Some countries do manage to stay out of this trap. An example would be Norway, a country that is very rich in Oil, but puts a very large percentage of their profits into a sovereign wealth fund which is treated as an endowment.
              – Chuu
              yesterday











            • Yup. They read economic history and decided not to spend most of what they collected. It seems to be working.
              – Mark Olson
              yesterday






            • 1




              This sort of sounds like another way of talking about a single product banana republic, I'm also suddenly feeling this might be a worrying alternative way to look at the UK today & it's primarily finance orientated service sector exports, now I feel a little glum, I'm sure you didn't mean to do that to me though :)
              – Pelinore
              yesterday







            • 1




              @Sulthan Not at all. Bad’s industry would flourish, while Good’s would shrink. The standard of living in Good would be higher than in Bad, but only so long as the gold continues to flow. Then comes the reckoning. (It’s a crappy way to wage warfare, but it’s workable if you can stay the course. Costs a lot, too.)
              – Mark Olson
              yesterday
















            • Bad don’t really have a surplus of gold in forms of mines or trade. Bad is a totalitarian state while Good is feudal. Bad have twice the population of Good and Bad has also spent a lot on their army.
              – Obak
              yesterday







            • 3




              Some countries do manage to stay out of this trap. An example would be Norway, a country that is very rich in Oil, but puts a very large percentage of their profits into a sovereign wealth fund which is treated as an endowment.
              – Chuu
              yesterday











            • Yup. They read economic history and decided not to spend most of what they collected. It seems to be working.
              – Mark Olson
              yesterday






            • 1




              This sort of sounds like another way of talking about a single product banana republic, I'm also suddenly feeling this might be a worrying alternative way to look at the UK today & it's primarily finance orientated service sector exports, now I feel a little glum, I'm sure you didn't mean to do that to me though :)
              – Pelinore
              yesterday







            • 1




              @Sulthan Not at all. Bad’s industry would flourish, while Good’s would shrink. The standard of living in Good would be higher than in Bad, but only so long as the gold continues to flow. Then comes the reckoning. (It’s a crappy way to wage warfare, but it’s workable if you can stay the course. Costs a lot, too.)
              – Mark Olson
              yesterday















            Bad don’t really have a surplus of gold in forms of mines or trade. Bad is a totalitarian state while Good is feudal. Bad have twice the population of Good and Bad has also spent a lot on their army.
            – Obak
            yesterday





            Bad don’t really have a surplus of gold in forms of mines or trade. Bad is a totalitarian state while Good is feudal. Bad have twice the population of Good and Bad has also spent a lot on their army.
            – Obak
            yesterday





            3




            3




            Some countries do manage to stay out of this trap. An example would be Norway, a country that is very rich in Oil, but puts a very large percentage of their profits into a sovereign wealth fund which is treated as an endowment.
            – Chuu
            yesterday





            Some countries do manage to stay out of this trap. An example would be Norway, a country that is very rich in Oil, but puts a very large percentage of their profits into a sovereign wealth fund which is treated as an endowment.
            – Chuu
            yesterday













            Yup. They read economic history and decided not to spend most of what they collected. It seems to be working.
            – Mark Olson
            yesterday




            Yup. They read economic history and decided not to spend most of what they collected. It seems to be working.
            – Mark Olson
            yesterday




            1




            1




            This sort of sounds like another way of talking about a single product banana republic, I'm also suddenly feeling this might be a worrying alternative way to look at the UK today & it's primarily finance orientated service sector exports, now I feel a little glum, I'm sure you didn't mean to do that to me though :)
            – Pelinore
            yesterday





            This sort of sounds like another way of talking about a single product banana republic, I'm also suddenly feeling this might be a worrying alternative way to look at the UK today & it's primarily finance orientated service sector exports, now I feel a little glum, I'm sure you didn't mean to do that to me though :)
            – Pelinore
            yesterday





            1




            1




            @Sulthan Not at all. Bad’s industry would flourish, while Good’s would shrink. The standard of living in Good would be higher than in Bad, but only so long as the gold continues to flow. Then comes the reckoning. (It’s a crappy way to wage warfare, but it’s workable if you can stay the course. Costs a lot, too.)
            – Mark Olson
            yesterday




            @Sulthan Not at all. Bad’s industry would flourish, while Good’s would shrink. The standard of living in Good would be higher than in Bad, but only so long as the gold continues to flow. Then comes the reckoning. (It’s a crappy way to wage warfare, but it’s workable if you can stay the course. Costs a lot, too.)
            – Mark Olson
            yesterday











            4














            This is exactly what happened when Mansa Musa went on pilgrimage to Mecca



            From Wikipedia



            Musa's journey was documented by several eyewitnesses along his route, who were in awe of his wealth and extensive procession, and records exist in a variety of sources, including journals, oral accounts, and histories. Musa is known to have visited the Mamluk sultan of Egypt, Al-Nasir Muhammad, in July 1324. However, Musa's generous actions inadvertently devastated the economies of the regions through which he passed. In the cities of Cairo, Medina, and Mecca, the sudden influx of gold devalued the metal for the next decade. Prices on goods and wares greatly inflated. To rectify the gold market, on his way back from Mecca, Musa borrowed all the gold he could carry from money-lenders in Cairo at high interest. This is the only time recorded in history that one man directly controlled the price of gold in the Mediterranean.






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            hensti is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.






















              4














              This is exactly what happened when Mansa Musa went on pilgrimage to Mecca



              From Wikipedia



              Musa's journey was documented by several eyewitnesses along his route, who were in awe of his wealth and extensive procession, and records exist in a variety of sources, including journals, oral accounts, and histories. Musa is known to have visited the Mamluk sultan of Egypt, Al-Nasir Muhammad, in July 1324. However, Musa's generous actions inadvertently devastated the economies of the regions through which he passed. In the cities of Cairo, Medina, and Mecca, the sudden influx of gold devalued the metal for the next decade. Prices on goods and wares greatly inflated. To rectify the gold market, on his way back from Mecca, Musa borrowed all the gold he could carry from money-lenders in Cairo at high interest. This is the only time recorded in history that one man directly controlled the price of gold in the Mediterranean.






              share|improve this answer








              New contributor




              hensti is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                4












                4








                4






                This is exactly what happened when Mansa Musa went on pilgrimage to Mecca



                From Wikipedia



                Musa's journey was documented by several eyewitnesses along his route, who were in awe of his wealth and extensive procession, and records exist in a variety of sources, including journals, oral accounts, and histories. Musa is known to have visited the Mamluk sultan of Egypt, Al-Nasir Muhammad, in July 1324. However, Musa's generous actions inadvertently devastated the economies of the regions through which he passed. In the cities of Cairo, Medina, and Mecca, the sudden influx of gold devalued the metal for the next decade. Prices on goods and wares greatly inflated. To rectify the gold market, on his way back from Mecca, Musa borrowed all the gold he could carry from money-lenders in Cairo at high interest. This is the only time recorded in history that one man directly controlled the price of gold in the Mediterranean.






                share|improve this answer








                New contributor




                hensti is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                This is exactly what happened when Mansa Musa went on pilgrimage to Mecca



                From Wikipedia



                Musa's journey was documented by several eyewitnesses along his route, who were in awe of his wealth and extensive procession, and records exist in a variety of sources, including journals, oral accounts, and histories. Musa is known to have visited the Mamluk sultan of Egypt, Al-Nasir Muhammad, in July 1324. However, Musa's generous actions inadvertently devastated the economies of the regions through which he passed. In the cities of Cairo, Medina, and Mecca, the sudden influx of gold devalued the metal for the next decade. Prices on goods and wares greatly inflated. To rectify the gold market, on his way back from Mecca, Musa borrowed all the gold he could carry from money-lenders in Cairo at high interest. This is the only time recorded in history that one man directly controlled the price of gold in the Mediterranean.







                share|improve this answer








                New contributor




                hensti is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer






                New contributor




                hensti is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                answered yesterday









                hensti

                411




                411




                New contributor




                hensti is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                New contributor





                hensti is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                Check out our Code of Conduct.





















                    1














                    It depends on how it's spend, and the culture of the good kingdom.



                    There was a King in history who went to another country and spend a crapton of gold. This caused the value of gold in that country to go down and with the value of each coin tied to the value of gold it meant everything needed more coins to buy. 2 copper or whatever for a full bread before the gold came in? Now it costs 4 silver. The people who had sold stuff to the King and had gold didnt have too much problems with this, but anyone else would suddenly need to pay multitudes more without earning more or having more in reserve.



                    Suppose the bad kingdom tries to exploit this: it pays
                    specific groups of people money for wares and stuff, and ignores other groups. Just living becomes more expensive for everyone which will cause strife in the population. If the divide grows quickly enough and large enough people could revolt, destabilizing the country and making it an easier prey.



                    While you are at it, buy specific goods. Buying weapons might not be the smartest move as the sellers could just have an easier time getting more weapons. Buying all the ore and resources to build weapons could deplete the good kingdom's resources while destabilizing the economy, and if you offer a higher price for the resources than good kingdom then the people who own the resources would gladly hold out and wait for a bad kingdom guy to come for their goods.



                    Other resources to buy would be food, it might be the best choice. Buying food directly means more stockpiles for you, higher food prices for good kingdom coupled with massive inflation and less food for good kingdom to prosecute a war. Even better: if good kingdom tries to prosecute a war food prices will rise anyway on top of scarcity and inflation, it would probably kill the good kingdom the fastest.



                    Lastly a risky option: pay the military of good kingdom. If you are rich the rewards of combat pay suddenly is a lot less motivation to risk your life. A portion of Soldiers of good kingdom might just leave when push comes to shove and try to be alive and spending somewhere.






                    share|improve this answer

























                      1














                      It depends on how it's spend, and the culture of the good kingdom.



                      There was a King in history who went to another country and spend a crapton of gold. This caused the value of gold in that country to go down and with the value of each coin tied to the value of gold it meant everything needed more coins to buy. 2 copper or whatever for a full bread before the gold came in? Now it costs 4 silver. The people who had sold stuff to the King and had gold didnt have too much problems with this, but anyone else would suddenly need to pay multitudes more without earning more or having more in reserve.



                      Suppose the bad kingdom tries to exploit this: it pays
                      specific groups of people money for wares and stuff, and ignores other groups. Just living becomes more expensive for everyone which will cause strife in the population. If the divide grows quickly enough and large enough people could revolt, destabilizing the country and making it an easier prey.



                      While you are at it, buy specific goods. Buying weapons might not be the smartest move as the sellers could just have an easier time getting more weapons. Buying all the ore and resources to build weapons could deplete the good kingdom's resources while destabilizing the economy, and if you offer a higher price for the resources than good kingdom then the people who own the resources would gladly hold out and wait for a bad kingdom guy to come for their goods.



                      Other resources to buy would be food, it might be the best choice. Buying food directly means more stockpiles for you, higher food prices for good kingdom coupled with massive inflation and less food for good kingdom to prosecute a war. Even better: if good kingdom tries to prosecute a war food prices will rise anyway on top of scarcity and inflation, it would probably kill the good kingdom the fastest.



                      Lastly a risky option: pay the military of good kingdom. If you are rich the rewards of combat pay suddenly is a lot less motivation to risk your life. A portion of Soldiers of good kingdom might just leave when push comes to shove and try to be alive and spending somewhere.






                      share|improve this answer























                        1












                        1








                        1






                        It depends on how it's spend, and the culture of the good kingdom.



                        There was a King in history who went to another country and spend a crapton of gold. This caused the value of gold in that country to go down and with the value of each coin tied to the value of gold it meant everything needed more coins to buy. 2 copper or whatever for a full bread before the gold came in? Now it costs 4 silver. The people who had sold stuff to the King and had gold didnt have too much problems with this, but anyone else would suddenly need to pay multitudes more without earning more or having more in reserve.



                        Suppose the bad kingdom tries to exploit this: it pays
                        specific groups of people money for wares and stuff, and ignores other groups. Just living becomes more expensive for everyone which will cause strife in the population. If the divide grows quickly enough and large enough people could revolt, destabilizing the country and making it an easier prey.



                        While you are at it, buy specific goods. Buying weapons might not be the smartest move as the sellers could just have an easier time getting more weapons. Buying all the ore and resources to build weapons could deplete the good kingdom's resources while destabilizing the economy, and if you offer a higher price for the resources than good kingdom then the people who own the resources would gladly hold out and wait for a bad kingdom guy to come for their goods.



                        Other resources to buy would be food, it might be the best choice. Buying food directly means more stockpiles for you, higher food prices for good kingdom coupled with massive inflation and less food for good kingdom to prosecute a war. Even better: if good kingdom tries to prosecute a war food prices will rise anyway on top of scarcity and inflation, it would probably kill the good kingdom the fastest.



                        Lastly a risky option: pay the military of good kingdom. If you are rich the rewards of combat pay suddenly is a lot less motivation to risk your life. A portion of Soldiers of good kingdom might just leave when push comes to shove and try to be alive and spending somewhere.






                        share|improve this answer












                        It depends on how it's spend, and the culture of the good kingdom.



                        There was a King in history who went to another country and spend a crapton of gold. This caused the value of gold in that country to go down and with the value of each coin tied to the value of gold it meant everything needed more coins to buy. 2 copper or whatever for a full bread before the gold came in? Now it costs 4 silver. The people who had sold stuff to the King and had gold didnt have too much problems with this, but anyone else would suddenly need to pay multitudes more without earning more or having more in reserve.



                        Suppose the bad kingdom tries to exploit this: it pays
                        specific groups of people money for wares and stuff, and ignores other groups. Just living becomes more expensive for everyone which will cause strife in the population. If the divide grows quickly enough and large enough people could revolt, destabilizing the country and making it an easier prey.



                        While you are at it, buy specific goods. Buying weapons might not be the smartest move as the sellers could just have an easier time getting more weapons. Buying all the ore and resources to build weapons could deplete the good kingdom's resources while destabilizing the economy, and if you offer a higher price for the resources than good kingdom then the people who own the resources would gladly hold out and wait for a bad kingdom guy to come for their goods.



                        Other resources to buy would be food, it might be the best choice. Buying food directly means more stockpiles for you, higher food prices for good kingdom coupled with massive inflation and less food for good kingdom to prosecute a war. Even better: if good kingdom tries to prosecute a war food prices will rise anyway on top of scarcity and inflation, it would probably kill the good kingdom the fastest.



                        Lastly a risky option: pay the military of good kingdom. If you are rich the rewards of combat pay suddenly is a lot less motivation to risk your life. A portion of Soldiers of good kingdom might just leave when push comes to shove and try to be alive and spending somewhere.







                        share|improve this answer












                        share|improve this answer



                        share|improve this answer










                        answered yesterday









                        Demigan

                        6,8081537




                        6,8081537





















                            1














                            As a short-term move, the Land of Bad might buy up some crucial resource, such as food, ores and even weapons, haul them out of the Land of Good—and then blockade it.



                            Under ordinary circumstances, the Land of Good would now have a lot of gold and use that to import whatever it needs. But, while it’s under a military embargo, it can’t do that. It’s now facing a sudden and unexpected shortage of critical resources, and all it has is a bunch of useless gold that it can’t eat or fight with.



                            The King of the Good had better have foreign allies and good credit. Although maybe the citizens of Bad will happily take gold and trade with the “enemy.”






                            share|improve this answer

























                              1














                              As a short-term move, the Land of Bad might buy up some crucial resource, such as food, ores and even weapons, haul them out of the Land of Good—and then blockade it.



                              Under ordinary circumstances, the Land of Good would now have a lot of gold and use that to import whatever it needs. But, while it’s under a military embargo, it can’t do that. It’s now facing a sudden and unexpected shortage of critical resources, and all it has is a bunch of useless gold that it can’t eat or fight with.



                              The King of the Good had better have foreign allies and good credit. Although maybe the citizens of Bad will happily take gold and trade with the “enemy.”






                              share|improve this answer























                                1












                                1








                                1






                                As a short-term move, the Land of Bad might buy up some crucial resource, such as food, ores and even weapons, haul them out of the Land of Good—and then blockade it.



                                Under ordinary circumstances, the Land of Good would now have a lot of gold and use that to import whatever it needs. But, while it’s under a military embargo, it can’t do that. It’s now facing a sudden and unexpected shortage of critical resources, and all it has is a bunch of useless gold that it can’t eat or fight with.



                                The King of the Good had better have foreign allies and good credit. Although maybe the citizens of Bad will happily take gold and trade with the “enemy.”






                                share|improve this answer












                                As a short-term move, the Land of Bad might buy up some crucial resource, such as food, ores and even weapons, haul them out of the Land of Good—and then blockade it.



                                Under ordinary circumstances, the Land of Good would now have a lot of gold and use that to import whatever it needs. But, while it’s under a military embargo, it can’t do that. It’s now facing a sudden and unexpected shortage of critical resources, and all it has is a bunch of useless gold that it can’t eat or fight with.



                                The King of the Good had better have foreign allies and good credit. Although maybe the citizens of Bad will happily take gold and trade with the “enemy.”







                                share|improve this answer












                                share|improve this answer



                                share|improve this answer










                                answered yesterday









                                Davislor

                                2,906714




                                2,906714





















                                    1














                                    You can play on exchange rates of gold and silver in respective countries.



                                    And yes, with a complication twist it happened before, see the Opium Wars.



                                    Simplified, China was selling tea only for silver. When the cheap silver sources in Europe and European colonies was depleted, silver became more expensive (in gold), but China did not care. Hence, the driver of the Opium Wars. The basic scheme was:



                                    • let's buy opium in India for gold, cheaply

                                    • smuggle opium to China, either selling it for a lot of silver or exchanging it to tea directly

                                    • buy tea for cheaply acquired silver

                                    • bring back some (expensive) tea and (expensive) silver to the metropoles

                                    • sell them for gold.





                                    share|improve this answer



























                                      1














                                      You can play on exchange rates of gold and silver in respective countries.



                                      And yes, with a complication twist it happened before, see the Opium Wars.



                                      Simplified, China was selling tea only for silver. When the cheap silver sources in Europe and European colonies was depleted, silver became more expensive (in gold), but China did not care. Hence, the driver of the Opium Wars. The basic scheme was:



                                      • let's buy opium in India for gold, cheaply

                                      • smuggle opium to China, either selling it for a lot of silver or exchanging it to tea directly

                                      • buy tea for cheaply acquired silver

                                      • bring back some (expensive) tea and (expensive) silver to the metropoles

                                      • sell them for gold.





                                      share|improve this answer

























                                        1












                                        1








                                        1






                                        You can play on exchange rates of gold and silver in respective countries.



                                        And yes, with a complication twist it happened before, see the Opium Wars.



                                        Simplified, China was selling tea only for silver. When the cheap silver sources in Europe and European colonies was depleted, silver became more expensive (in gold), but China did not care. Hence, the driver of the Opium Wars. The basic scheme was:



                                        • let's buy opium in India for gold, cheaply

                                        • smuggle opium to China, either selling it for a lot of silver or exchanging it to tea directly

                                        • buy tea for cheaply acquired silver

                                        • bring back some (expensive) tea and (expensive) silver to the metropoles

                                        • sell them for gold.





                                        share|improve this answer














                                        You can play on exchange rates of gold and silver in respective countries.



                                        And yes, with a complication twist it happened before, see the Opium Wars.



                                        Simplified, China was selling tea only for silver. When the cheap silver sources in Europe and European colonies was depleted, silver became more expensive (in gold), but China did not care. Hence, the driver of the Opium Wars. The basic scheme was:



                                        • let's buy opium in India for gold, cheaply

                                        • smuggle opium to China, either selling it for a lot of silver or exchanging it to tea directly

                                        • buy tea for cheaply acquired silver

                                        • bring back some (expensive) tea and (expensive) silver to the metropoles

                                        • sell them for gold.






                                        share|improve this answer














                                        share|improve this answer



                                        share|improve this answer








                                        edited 14 hours ago

























                                        answered 17 hours ago









                                        Oleg Lobachev

                                        1,938216




                                        1,938216





















                                            0














                                            Yes, imagine that gold represents something like the king's favour.



                                            There's limited gold, the king owns it all, and you need gold to pay your taxes. Thus you need to work for the king to get the gold you need to pay your taxes.



                                            If there's suddenly another source of gold, people no longer work for the king, etc.






                                            share|improve this answer

























                                              0














                                              Yes, imagine that gold represents something like the king's favour.



                                              There's limited gold, the king owns it all, and you need gold to pay your taxes. Thus you need to work for the king to get the gold you need to pay your taxes.



                                              If there's suddenly another source of gold, people no longer work for the king, etc.






                                              share|improve this answer























                                                0












                                                0








                                                0






                                                Yes, imagine that gold represents something like the king's favour.



                                                There's limited gold, the king owns it all, and you need gold to pay your taxes. Thus you need to work for the king to get the gold you need to pay your taxes.



                                                If there's suddenly another source of gold, people no longer work for the king, etc.






                                                share|improve this answer












                                                Yes, imagine that gold represents something like the king's favour.



                                                There's limited gold, the king owns it all, and you need gold to pay your taxes. Thus you need to work for the king to get the gold you need to pay your taxes.



                                                If there's suddenly another source of gold, people no longer work for the king, etc.







                                                share|improve this answer












                                                share|improve this answer



                                                share|improve this answer










                                                answered yesterday









                                                ChrisW

                                                1,644311




                                                1,644311




















                                                    Obak is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









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                                                    Obak is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












                                                    Obak is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











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