Can a kingdom be destabilised by an influx of enemy gold?
A few years ago I read a role-playing game supplement that described a cold war between kingdom Good and kingdom Bad. Both kingdoms used metal coins with silver as the most common followed by gold. Kingdom Bad planned to flood kingdom Good with gold coins, disrupting Good's economy in preparation for Bad's invasion. So far as I remember, Bad planned to use real gold coins and not counterfeit ones.
To me it seems that all Bad is doing is emptying its coffers to fill Good's, essentially paying for Good's defenses, weapons, and mercenaries.
However, I'm not sure if there's something I'm missing. Is this, in fact, really a reasonable plot? Can this style of economic warfare somehow destroy kingdom Good?
The setting was low magic, high realism, high medieval
Bad has about twice the population of good.
Bad has spent vast amounts on their army but have a comparatively small navy.
Good and Bad are separated by a narrow sea.
economy
New contributor
add a comment |Â
A few years ago I read a role-playing game supplement that described a cold war between kingdom Good and kingdom Bad. Both kingdoms used metal coins with silver as the most common followed by gold. Kingdom Bad planned to flood kingdom Good with gold coins, disrupting Good's economy in preparation for Bad's invasion. So far as I remember, Bad planned to use real gold coins and not counterfeit ones.
To me it seems that all Bad is doing is emptying its coffers to fill Good's, essentially paying for Good's defenses, weapons, and mercenaries.
However, I'm not sure if there's something I'm missing. Is this, in fact, really a reasonable plot? Can this style of economic warfare somehow destroy kingdom Good?
The setting was low magic, high realism, high medieval
Bad has about twice the population of good.
Bad has spent vast amounts on their army but have a comparatively small navy.
Good and Bad are separated by a narrow sea.
economy
New contributor
Queue the Rick and Morty ep where Rick sparks the Federation's downfall...
â EvilSnack
yesterday
1
So, does anyone know how much money China has poured into the US as inward investment in the past four decades then? and should we be worried by that :)
â Pelinore
yesterday
1
Not "enemy gold", but read about south american gold in spain here: history.stackexchange.com/questions/9060/â¦
â Guntram Blohm
yesterday
1
Research the Spanish empire around 1600, Phillip the 2nd, and their influx of gold from the new world and how it affected their kingdom.
â Chloe
yesterday
add a comment |Â
A few years ago I read a role-playing game supplement that described a cold war between kingdom Good and kingdom Bad. Both kingdoms used metal coins with silver as the most common followed by gold. Kingdom Bad planned to flood kingdom Good with gold coins, disrupting Good's economy in preparation for Bad's invasion. So far as I remember, Bad planned to use real gold coins and not counterfeit ones.
To me it seems that all Bad is doing is emptying its coffers to fill Good's, essentially paying for Good's defenses, weapons, and mercenaries.
However, I'm not sure if there's something I'm missing. Is this, in fact, really a reasonable plot? Can this style of economic warfare somehow destroy kingdom Good?
The setting was low magic, high realism, high medieval
Bad has about twice the population of good.
Bad has spent vast amounts on their army but have a comparatively small navy.
Good and Bad are separated by a narrow sea.
economy
New contributor
A few years ago I read a role-playing game supplement that described a cold war between kingdom Good and kingdom Bad. Both kingdoms used metal coins with silver as the most common followed by gold. Kingdom Bad planned to flood kingdom Good with gold coins, disrupting Good's economy in preparation for Bad's invasion. So far as I remember, Bad planned to use real gold coins and not counterfeit ones.
To me it seems that all Bad is doing is emptying its coffers to fill Good's, essentially paying for Good's defenses, weapons, and mercenaries.
However, I'm not sure if there's something I'm missing. Is this, in fact, really a reasonable plot? Can this style of economic warfare somehow destroy kingdom Good?
The setting was low magic, high realism, high medieval
Bad has about twice the population of good.
Bad has spent vast amounts on their army but have a comparatively small navy.
Good and Bad are separated by a narrow sea.
economy
economy
New contributor
New contributor
edited yesterday
New contributor
asked yesterday
Obak
414
414
New contributor
New contributor
Queue the Rick and Morty ep where Rick sparks the Federation's downfall...
â EvilSnack
yesterday
1
So, does anyone know how much money China has poured into the US as inward investment in the past four decades then? and should we be worried by that :)
â Pelinore
yesterday
1
Not "enemy gold", but read about south american gold in spain here: history.stackexchange.com/questions/9060/â¦
â Guntram Blohm
yesterday
1
Research the Spanish empire around 1600, Phillip the 2nd, and their influx of gold from the new world and how it affected their kingdom.
â Chloe
yesterday
add a comment |Â
Queue the Rick and Morty ep where Rick sparks the Federation's downfall...
â EvilSnack
yesterday
1
So, does anyone know how much money China has poured into the US as inward investment in the past four decades then? and should we be worried by that :)
â Pelinore
yesterday
1
Not "enemy gold", but read about south american gold in spain here: history.stackexchange.com/questions/9060/â¦
â Guntram Blohm
yesterday
1
Research the Spanish empire around 1600, Phillip the 2nd, and their influx of gold from the new world and how it affected their kingdom.
â Chloe
yesterday
Queue the Rick and Morty ep where Rick sparks the Federation's downfall...
â EvilSnack
yesterday
Queue the Rick and Morty ep where Rick sparks the Federation's downfall...
â EvilSnack
yesterday
1
1
So, does anyone know how much money China has poured into the US as inward investment in the past four decades then? and should we be worried by that :)
â Pelinore
yesterday
So, does anyone know how much money China has poured into the US as inward investment in the past four decades then? and should we be worried by that :)
â Pelinore
yesterday
1
1
Not "enemy gold", but read about south american gold in spain here: history.stackexchange.com/questions/9060/â¦
â Guntram Blohm
yesterday
Not "enemy gold", but read about south american gold in spain here: history.stackexchange.com/questions/9060/â¦
â Guntram Blohm
yesterday
1
1
Research the Spanish empire around 1600, Phillip the 2nd, and their influx of gold from the new world and how it affected their kingdom.
â Chloe
yesterday
Research the Spanish empire around 1600, Phillip the 2nd, and their influx of gold from the new world and how it affected their kingdom.
â Chloe
yesterday
add a comment |Â
7 Answers
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It depends on who has more gold/Wealth. If kingdom bad had much more wealth than kingdom good; then yes it is possible. Then there is also the issue of gold reserves. I am guessing both countries have access to gold mines. If kingdom Bad just discovered a huge deposit of gold then they can indeed pull off this strategy. In fact, there is an African king that had so much gold, he gave it away in the streets.
Richest person in history
From the side of Kingdom good; they need to have some sort of central banking system to monitor inflation rates if they want to defend such an act. They can find ways to slow down the influx. (Check purses at borders and confiscate coins) but ultimately gold coins are easy to hide.
With that being said this is not a good strategy. Kingdom Bad can use the gold for their own troops, to hire mercenaries, hire assasins, bribe officials/ generals from kingdom good. Literally, any other strategy would be vastly better.
New contributor
Yeah, I also drew paralels to Mansa Musa of Mali, the inflation of the late roman empire and the german ww2 plot to print false Brittish pound notes. But it never occired ro me as legitimate deliberate strategy.
â Obak
yesterday
add a comment |Â
Yes, definitely, but it takes a lot of gold and a lot of time.
Basically, when a country has a large, long-term influx of wealth, the wealth-generating part of the economy will tend to drive out everything else. This happened to the Spanish Empire in real life: New World gold and silver poured into Spain and Spain spent it. The part that was spent internally caused inflation. The part that was spent to buy imports drove domestic producers out of business. In time, all that wealth pouring in meant that Spain had a big colonial enterprise, but was deeply backwards in industry and trade. And that doomed the Spanish Empire. It's sometimes called the "Spanish Curse".
There's a question on the History Stack Exchange which deals with this in more detail.
Actually, any resource that you just dig up (or steal from the people who dug it up) has the same effect if you get enough of it for long enough. (Oil-rich countries today suffer from the same problem.) The Wikipedia article on the "Resource Curse" does a nice job discussing it.
So if Bad has enough gold and is willing to pour it into Good for a generation or two, Good will be ripe for the plucking.
Bad donâÂÂt really have a surplus of gold in forms of mines or trade. Bad is a totalitarian state while Good is feudal. Bad have twice the population of Good and Bad has also spent a lot on their army.
â Obak
yesterday
3
Some countries do manage to stay out of this trap. An example would be Norway, a country that is very rich in Oil, but puts a very large percentage of their profits into a sovereign wealth fund which is treated as an endowment.
â Chuu
yesterday
Yup. They read economic history and decided not to spend most of what they collected. It seems to be working.
â Mark Olson
yesterday
1
This sort of sounds like another way of talking about a single product banana republic, I'm also suddenly feeling this might be a worrying alternative way to look at the UK today & it's primarily finance orientated service sector exports, now I feel a little glum, I'm sure you didn't mean to do that to me though :)
â Pelinore
yesterday
1
@Sulthan Not at all. BadâÂÂs industry would flourish, while GoodâÂÂs would shrink. The standard of living in Good would be higher than in Bad, but only so long as the gold continues to flow. Then comes the reckoning. (ItâÂÂs a crappy way to wage warfare, but itâÂÂs workable if you can stay the course. Costs a lot, too.)
â Mark Olson
yesterday
 |Â
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This is exactly what happened when Mansa Musa went on pilgrimage to Mecca
From Wikipedia
Musa's journey was documented by several eyewitnesses along his route, who were in awe of his wealth and extensive procession, and records exist in a variety of sources, including journals, oral accounts, and histories. Musa is known to have visited the Mamluk sultan of Egypt, Al-Nasir Muhammad, in July 1324. However, Musa's generous actions inadvertently devastated the economies of the regions through which he passed. In the cities of Cairo, Medina, and Mecca, the sudden influx of gold devalued the metal for the next decade. Prices on goods and wares greatly inflated. To rectify the gold market, on his way back from Mecca, Musa borrowed all the gold he could carry from money-lenders in Cairo at high interest. This is the only time recorded in history that one man directly controlled the price of gold in the Mediterranean.
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It depends on how it's spend, and the culture of the good kingdom.
There was a King in history who went to another country and spend a crapton of gold. This caused the value of gold in that country to go down and with the value of each coin tied to the value of gold it meant everything needed more coins to buy. 2 copper or whatever for a full bread before the gold came in? Now it costs 4 silver. The people who had sold stuff to the King and had gold didnt have too much problems with this, but anyone else would suddenly need to pay multitudes more without earning more or having more in reserve.
Suppose the bad kingdom tries to exploit this: it pays
specific groups of people money for wares and stuff, and ignores other groups. Just living becomes more expensive for everyone which will cause strife in the population. If the divide grows quickly enough and large enough people could revolt, destabilizing the country and making it an easier prey.
While you are at it, buy specific goods. Buying weapons might not be the smartest move as the sellers could just have an easier time getting more weapons. Buying all the ore and resources to build weapons could deplete the good kingdom's resources while destabilizing the economy, and if you offer a higher price for the resources than good kingdom then the people who own the resources would gladly hold out and wait for a bad kingdom guy to come for their goods.
Other resources to buy would be food, it might be the best choice. Buying food directly means more stockpiles for you, higher food prices for good kingdom coupled with massive inflation and less food for good kingdom to prosecute a war. Even better: if good kingdom tries to prosecute a war food prices will rise anyway on top of scarcity and inflation, it would probably kill the good kingdom the fastest.
Lastly a risky option: pay the military of good kingdom. If you are rich the rewards of combat pay suddenly is a lot less motivation to risk your life. A portion of Soldiers of good kingdom might just leave when push comes to shove and try to be alive and spending somewhere.
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As a short-term move, the Land of Bad might buy up some crucial resource, such as food, ores and even weapons, haul them out of the Land of GoodâÂÂand then blockade it.
Under ordinary circumstances, the Land of Good would now have a lot of gold and use that to import whatever it needs. But, while itâÂÂs under a military embargo, it canâÂÂt do that. ItâÂÂs now facing a sudden and unexpected shortage of critical resources, and all it has is a bunch of useless gold that it canâÂÂt eat or fight with.
The King of the Good had better have foreign allies and good credit. Although maybe the citizens of Bad will happily take gold and trade with the âÂÂenemy.âÂÂ
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You can play on exchange rates of gold and silver in respective countries.
And yes, with a complication twist it happened before, see the Opium Wars.
Simplified, China was selling tea only for silver. When the cheap silver sources in Europe and European colonies was depleted, silver became more expensive (in gold), but China did not care. Hence, the driver of the Opium Wars. The basic scheme was:
- let's buy opium in India for gold, cheaply
- smuggle opium to China, either selling it for a lot of silver or exchanging it to tea directly
- buy tea for cheaply acquired silver
- bring back some (expensive) tea and (expensive) silver to the metropoles
- sell them for gold.
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Yes, imagine that gold represents something like the king's favour.
There's limited gold, the king owns it all, and you need gold to pay your taxes. Thus you need to work for the king to get the gold you need to pay your taxes.
If there's suddenly another source of gold, people no longer work for the king, etc.
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7 Answers
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7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
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active
oldest
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It depends on who has more gold/Wealth. If kingdom bad had much more wealth than kingdom good; then yes it is possible. Then there is also the issue of gold reserves. I am guessing both countries have access to gold mines. If kingdom Bad just discovered a huge deposit of gold then they can indeed pull off this strategy. In fact, there is an African king that had so much gold, he gave it away in the streets.
Richest person in history
From the side of Kingdom good; they need to have some sort of central banking system to monitor inflation rates if they want to defend such an act. They can find ways to slow down the influx. (Check purses at borders and confiscate coins) but ultimately gold coins are easy to hide.
With that being said this is not a good strategy. Kingdom Bad can use the gold for their own troops, to hire mercenaries, hire assasins, bribe officials/ generals from kingdom good. Literally, any other strategy would be vastly better.
New contributor
Yeah, I also drew paralels to Mansa Musa of Mali, the inflation of the late roman empire and the german ww2 plot to print false Brittish pound notes. But it never occired ro me as legitimate deliberate strategy.
â Obak
yesterday
add a comment |Â
It depends on who has more gold/Wealth. If kingdom bad had much more wealth than kingdom good; then yes it is possible. Then there is also the issue of gold reserves. I am guessing both countries have access to gold mines. If kingdom Bad just discovered a huge deposit of gold then they can indeed pull off this strategy. In fact, there is an African king that had so much gold, he gave it away in the streets.
Richest person in history
From the side of Kingdom good; they need to have some sort of central banking system to monitor inflation rates if they want to defend such an act. They can find ways to slow down the influx. (Check purses at borders and confiscate coins) but ultimately gold coins are easy to hide.
With that being said this is not a good strategy. Kingdom Bad can use the gold for their own troops, to hire mercenaries, hire assasins, bribe officials/ generals from kingdom good. Literally, any other strategy would be vastly better.
New contributor
Yeah, I also drew paralels to Mansa Musa of Mali, the inflation of the late roman empire and the german ww2 plot to print false Brittish pound notes. But it never occired ro me as legitimate deliberate strategy.
â Obak
yesterday
add a comment |Â
It depends on who has more gold/Wealth. If kingdom bad had much more wealth than kingdom good; then yes it is possible. Then there is also the issue of gold reserves. I am guessing both countries have access to gold mines. If kingdom Bad just discovered a huge deposit of gold then they can indeed pull off this strategy. In fact, there is an African king that had so much gold, he gave it away in the streets.
Richest person in history
From the side of Kingdom good; they need to have some sort of central banking system to monitor inflation rates if they want to defend such an act. They can find ways to slow down the influx. (Check purses at borders and confiscate coins) but ultimately gold coins are easy to hide.
With that being said this is not a good strategy. Kingdom Bad can use the gold for their own troops, to hire mercenaries, hire assasins, bribe officials/ generals from kingdom good. Literally, any other strategy would be vastly better.
New contributor
It depends on who has more gold/Wealth. If kingdom bad had much more wealth than kingdom good; then yes it is possible. Then there is also the issue of gold reserves. I am guessing both countries have access to gold mines. If kingdom Bad just discovered a huge deposit of gold then they can indeed pull off this strategy. In fact, there is an African king that had so much gold, he gave it away in the streets.
Richest person in history
From the side of Kingdom good; they need to have some sort of central banking system to monitor inflation rates if they want to defend such an act. They can find ways to slow down the influx. (Check purses at borders and confiscate coins) but ultimately gold coins are easy to hide.
With that being said this is not a good strategy. Kingdom Bad can use the gold for their own troops, to hire mercenaries, hire assasins, bribe officials/ generals from kingdom good. Literally, any other strategy would be vastly better.
New contributor
New contributor
answered yesterday
Sam Joseph
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New contributor
New contributor
Yeah, I also drew paralels to Mansa Musa of Mali, the inflation of the late roman empire and the german ww2 plot to print false Brittish pound notes. But it never occired ro me as legitimate deliberate strategy.
â Obak
yesterday
add a comment |Â
Yeah, I also drew paralels to Mansa Musa of Mali, the inflation of the late roman empire and the german ww2 plot to print false Brittish pound notes. But it never occired ro me as legitimate deliberate strategy.
â Obak
yesterday
Yeah, I also drew paralels to Mansa Musa of Mali, the inflation of the late roman empire and the german ww2 plot to print false Brittish pound notes. But it never occired ro me as legitimate deliberate strategy.
â Obak
yesterday
Yeah, I also drew paralels to Mansa Musa of Mali, the inflation of the late roman empire and the german ww2 plot to print false Brittish pound notes. But it never occired ro me as legitimate deliberate strategy.
â Obak
yesterday
add a comment |Â
Yes, definitely, but it takes a lot of gold and a lot of time.
Basically, when a country has a large, long-term influx of wealth, the wealth-generating part of the economy will tend to drive out everything else. This happened to the Spanish Empire in real life: New World gold and silver poured into Spain and Spain spent it. The part that was spent internally caused inflation. The part that was spent to buy imports drove domestic producers out of business. In time, all that wealth pouring in meant that Spain had a big colonial enterprise, but was deeply backwards in industry and trade. And that doomed the Spanish Empire. It's sometimes called the "Spanish Curse".
There's a question on the History Stack Exchange which deals with this in more detail.
Actually, any resource that you just dig up (or steal from the people who dug it up) has the same effect if you get enough of it for long enough. (Oil-rich countries today suffer from the same problem.) The Wikipedia article on the "Resource Curse" does a nice job discussing it.
So if Bad has enough gold and is willing to pour it into Good for a generation or two, Good will be ripe for the plucking.
Bad donâÂÂt really have a surplus of gold in forms of mines or trade. Bad is a totalitarian state while Good is feudal. Bad have twice the population of Good and Bad has also spent a lot on their army.
â Obak
yesterday
3
Some countries do manage to stay out of this trap. An example would be Norway, a country that is very rich in Oil, but puts a very large percentage of their profits into a sovereign wealth fund which is treated as an endowment.
â Chuu
yesterday
Yup. They read economic history and decided not to spend most of what they collected. It seems to be working.
â Mark Olson
yesterday
1
This sort of sounds like another way of talking about a single product banana republic, I'm also suddenly feeling this might be a worrying alternative way to look at the UK today & it's primarily finance orientated service sector exports, now I feel a little glum, I'm sure you didn't mean to do that to me though :)
â Pelinore
yesterday
1
@Sulthan Not at all. BadâÂÂs industry would flourish, while GoodâÂÂs would shrink. The standard of living in Good would be higher than in Bad, but only so long as the gold continues to flow. Then comes the reckoning. (ItâÂÂs a crappy way to wage warfare, but itâÂÂs workable if you can stay the course. Costs a lot, too.)
â Mark Olson
yesterday
 |Â
show 5 more comments
Yes, definitely, but it takes a lot of gold and a lot of time.
Basically, when a country has a large, long-term influx of wealth, the wealth-generating part of the economy will tend to drive out everything else. This happened to the Spanish Empire in real life: New World gold and silver poured into Spain and Spain spent it. The part that was spent internally caused inflation. The part that was spent to buy imports drove domestic producers out of business. In time, all that wealth pouring in meant that Spain had a big colonial enterprise, but was deeply backwards in industry and trade. And that doomed the Spanish Empire. It's sometimes called the "Spanish Curse".
There's a question on the History Stack Exchange which deals with this in more detail.
Actually, any resource that you just dig up (or steal from the people who dug it up) has the same effect if you get enough of it for long enough. (Oil-rich countries today suffer from the same problem.) The Wikipedia article on the "Resource Curse" does a nice job discussing it.
So if Bad has enough gold and is willing to pour it into Good for a generation or two, Good will be ripe for the plucking.
Bad donâÂÂt really have a surplus of gold in forms of mines or trade. Bad is a totalitarian state while Good is feudal. Bad have twice the population of Good and Bad has also spent a lot on their army.
â Obak
yesterday
3
Some countries do manage to stay out of this trap. An example would be Norway, a country that is very rich in Oil, but puts a very large percentage of their profits into a sovereign wealth fund which is treated as an endowment.
â Chuu
yesterday
Yup. They read economic history and decided not to spend most of what they collected. It seems to be working.
â Mark Olson
yesterday
1
This sort of sounds like another way of talking about a single product banana republic, I'm also suddenly feeling this might be a worrying alternative way to look at the UK today & it's primarily finance orientated service sector exports, now I feel a little glum, I'm sure you didn't mean to do that to me though :)
â Pelinore
yesterday
1
@Sulthan Not at all. BadâÂÂs industry would flourish, while GoodâÂÂs would shrink. The standard of living in Good would be higher than in Bad, but only so long as the gold continues to flow. Then comes the reckoning. (ItâÂÂs a crappy way to wage warfare, but itâÂÂs workable if you can stay the course. Costs a lot, too.)
â Mark Olson
yesterday
 |Â
show 5 more comments
Yes, definitely, but it takes a lot of gold and a lot of time.
Basically, when a country has a large, long-term influx of wealth, the wealth-generating part of the economy will tend to drive out everything else. This happened to the Spanish Empire in real life: New World gold and silver poured into Spain and Spain spent it. The part that was spent internally caused inflation. The part that was spent to buy imports drove domestic producers out of business. In time, all that wealth pouring in meant that Spain had a big colonial enterprise, but was deeply backwards in industry and trade. And that doomed the Spanish Empire. It's sometimes called the "Spanish Curse".
There's a question on the History Stack Exchange which deals with this in more detail.
Actually, any resource that you just dig up (or steal from the people who dug it up) has the same effect if you get enough of it for long enough. (Oil-rich countries today suffer from the same problem.) The Wikipedia article on the "Resource Curse" does a nice job discussing it.
So if Bad has enough gold and is willing to pour it into Good for a generation or two, Good will be ripe for the plucking.
Yes, definitely, but it takes a lot of gold and a lot of time.
Basically, when a country has a large, long-term influx of wealth, the wealth-generating part of the economy will tend to drive out everything else. This happened to the Spanish Empire in real life: New World gold and silver poured into Spain and Spain spent it. The part that was spent internally caused inflation. The part that was spent to buy imports drove domestic producers out of business. In time, all that wealth pouring in meant that Spain had a big colonial enterprise, but was deeply backwards in industry and trade. And that doomed the Spanish Empire. It's sometimes called the "Spanish Curse".
There's a question on the History Stack Exchange which deals with this in more detail.
Actually, any resource that you just dig up (or steal from the people who dug it up) has the same effect if you get enough of it for long enough. (Oil-rich countries today suffer from the same problem.) The Wikipedia article on the "Resource Curse" does a nice job discussing it.
So if Bad has enough gold and is willing to pour it into Good for a generation or two, Good will be ripe for the plucking.
answered yesterday
Mark Olson
9,98212243
9,98212243
Bad donâÂÂt really have a surplus of gold in forms of mines or trade. Bad is a totalitarian state while Good is feudal. Bad have twice the population of Good and Bad has also spent a lot on their army.
â Obak
yesterday
3
Some countries do manage to stay out of this trap. An example would be Norway, a country that is very rich in Oil, but puts a very large percentage of their profits into a sovereign wealth fund which is treated as an endowment.
â Chuu
yesterday
Yup. They read economic history and decided not to spend most of what they collected. It seems to be working.
â Mark Olson
yesterday
1
This sort of sounds like another way of talking about a single product banana republic, I'm also suddenly feeling this might be a worrying alternative way to look at the UK today & it's primarily finance orientated service sector exports, now I feel a little glum, I'm sure you didn't mean to do that to me though :)
â Pelinore
yesterday
1
@Sulthan Not at all. BadâÂÂs industry would flourish, while GoodâÂÂs would shrink. The standard of living in Good would be higher than in Bad, but only so long as the gold continues to flow. Then comes the reckoning. (ItâÂÂs a crappy way to wage warfare, but itâÂÂs workable if you can stay the course. Costs a lot, too.)
â Mark Olson
yesterday
 |Â
show 5 more comments
Bad donâÂÂt really have a surplus of gold in forms of mines or trade. Bad is a totalitarian state while Good is feudal. Bad have twice the population of Good and Bad has also spent a lot on their army.
â Obak
yesterday
3
Some countries do manage to stay out of this trap. An example would be Norway, a country that is very rich in Oil, but puts a very large percentage of their profits into a sovereign wealth fund which is treated as an endowment.
â Chuu
yesterday
Yup. They read economic history and decided not to spend most of what they collected. It seems to be working.
â Mark Olson
yesterday
1
This sort of sounds like another way of talking about a single product banana republic, I'm also suddenly feeling this might be a worrying alternative way to look at the UK today & it's primarily finance orientated service sector exports, now I feel a little glum, I'm sure you didn't mean to do that to me though :)
â Pelinore
yesterday
1
@Sulthan Not at all. BadâÂÂs industry would flourish, while GoodâÂÂs would shrink. The standard of living in Good would be higher than in Bad, but only so long as the gold continues to flow. Then comes the reckoning. (ItâÂÂs a crappy way to wage warfare, but itâÂÂs workable if you can stay the course. Costs a lot, too.)
â Mark Olson
yesterday
Bad donâÂÂt really have a surplus of gold in forms of mines or trade. Bad is a totalitarian state while Good is feudal. Bad have twice the population of Good and Bad has also spent a lot on their army.
â Obak
yesterday
Bad donâÂÂt really have a surplus of gold in forms of mines or trade. Bad is a totalitarian state while Good is feudal. Bad have twice the population of Good and Bad has also spent a lot on their army.
â Obak
yesterday
3
3
Some countries do manage to stay out of this trap. An example would be Norway, a country that is very rich in Oil, but puts a very large percentage of their profits into a sovereign wealth fund which is treated as an endowment.
â Chuu
yesterday
Some countries do manage to stay out of this trap. An example would be Norway, a country that is very rich in Oil, but puts a very large percentage of their profits into a sovereign wealth fund which is treated as an endowment.
â Chuu
yesterday
Yup. They read economic history and decided not to spend most of what they collected. It seems to be working.
â Mark Olson
yesterday
Yup. They read economic history and decided not to spend most of what they collected. It seems to be working.
â Mark Olson
yesterday
1
1
This sort of sounds like another way of talking about a single product banana republic, I'm also suddenly feeling this might be a worrying alternative way to look at the UK today & it's primarily finance orientated service sector exports, now I feel a little glum, I'm sure you didn't mean to do that to me though :)
â Pelinore
yesterday
This sort of sounds like another way of talking about a single product banana republic, I'm also suddenly feeling this might be a worrying alternative way to look at the UK today & it's primarily finance orientated service sector exports, now I feel a little glum, I'm sure you didn't mean to do that to me though :)
â Pelinore
yesterday
1
1
@Sulthan Not at all. BadâÂÂs industry would flourish, while GoodâÂÂs would shrink. The standard of living in Good would be higher than in Bad, but only so long as the gold continues to flow. Then comes the reckoning. (ItâÂÂs a crappy way to wage warfare, but itâÂÂs workable if you can stay the course. Costs a lot, too.)
â Mark Olson
yesterday
@Sulthan Not at all. BadâÂÂs industry would flourish, while GoodâÂÂs would shrink. The standard of living in Good would be higher than in Bad, but only so long as the gold continues to flow. Then comes the reckoning. (ItâÂÂs a crappy way to wage warfare, but itâÂÂs workable if you can stay the course. Costs a lot, too.)
â Mark Olson
yesterday
 |Â
show 5 more comments
This is exactly what happened when Mansa Musa went on pilgrimage to Mecca
From Wikipedia
Musa's journey was documented by several eyewitnesses along his route, who were in awe of his wealth and extensive procession, and records exist in a variety of sources, including journals, oral accounts, and histories. Musa is known to have visited the Mamluk sultan of Egypt, Al-Nasir Muhammad, in July 1324. However, Musa's generous actions inadvertently devastated the economies of the regions through which he passed. In the cities of Cairo, Medina, and Mecca, the sudden influx of gold devalued the metal for the next decade. Prices on goods and wares greatly inflated. To rectify the gold market, on his way back from Mecca, Musa borrowed all the gold he could carry from money-lenders in Cairo at high interest. This is the only time recorded in history that one man directly controlled the price of gold in the Mediterranean.
New contributor
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This is exactly what happened when Mansa Musa went on pilgrimage to Mecca
From Wikipedia
Musa's journey was documented by several eyewitnesses along his route, who were in awe of his wealth and extensive procession, and records exist in a variety of sources, including journals, oral accounts, and histories. Musa is known to have visited the Mamluk sultan of Egypt, Al-Nasir Muhammad, in July 1324. However, Musa's generous actions inadvertently devastated the economies of the regions through which he passed. In the cities of Cairo, Medina, and Mecca, the sudden influx of gold devalued the metal for the next decade. Prices on goods and wares greatly inflated. To rectify the gold market, on his way back from Mecca, Musa borrowed all the gold he could carry from money-lenders in Cairo at high interest. This is the only time recorded in history that one man directly controlled the price of gold in the Mediterranean.
New contributor
add a comment |Â
This is exactly what happened when Mansa Musa went on pilgrimage to Mecca
From Wikipedia
Musa's journey was documented by several eyewitnesses along his route, who were in awe of his wealth and extensive procession, and records exist in a variety of sources, including journals, oral accounts, and histories. Musa is known to have visited the Mamluk sultan of Egypt, Al-Nasir Muhammad, in July 1324. However, Musa's generous actions inadvertently devastated the economies of the regions through which he passed. In the cities of Cairo, Medina, and Mecca, the sudden influx of gold devalued the metal for the next decade. Prices on goods and wares greatly inflated. To rectify the gold market, on his way back from Mecca, Musa borrowed all the gold he could carry from money-lenders in Cairo at high interest. This is the only time recorded in history that one man directly controlled the price of gold in the Mediterranean.
New contributor
This is exactly what happened when Mansa Musa went on pilgrimage to Mecca
From Wikipedia
Musa's journey was documented by several eyewitnesses along his route, who were in awe of his wealth and extensive procession, and records exist in a variety of sources, including journals, oral accounts, and histories. Musa is known to have visited the Mamluk sultan of Egypt, Al-Nasir Muhammad, in July 1324. However, Musa's generous actions inadvertently devastated the economies of the regions through which he passed. In the cities of Cairo, Medina, and Mecca, the sudden influx of gold devalued the metal for the next decade. Prices on goods and wares greatly inflated. To rectify the gold market, on his way back from Mecca, Musa borrowed all the gold he could carry from money-lenders in Cairo at high interest. This is the only time recorded in history that one man directly controlled the price of gold in the Mediterranean.
New contributor
New contributor
answered yesterday
hensti
411
411
New contributor
New contributor
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It depends on how it's spend, and the culture of the good kingdom.
There was a King in history who went to another country and spend a crapton of gold. This caused the value of gold in that country to go down and with the value of each coin tied to the value of gold it meant everything needed more coins to buy. 2 copper or whatever for a full bread before the gold came in? Now it costs 4 silver. The people who had sold stuff to the King and had gold didnt have too much problems with this, but anyone else would suddenly need to pay multitudes more without earning more or having more in reserve.
Suppose the bad kingdom tries to exploit this: it pays
specific groups of people money for wares and stuff, and ignores other groups. Just living becomes more expensive for everyone which will cause strife in the population. If the divide grows quickly enough and large enough people could revolt, destabilizing the country and making it an easier prey.
While you are at it, buy specific goods. Buying weapons might not be the smartest move as the sellers could just have an easier time getting more weapons. Buying all the ore and resources to build weapons could deplete the good kingdom's resources while destabilizing the economy, and if you offer a higher price for the resources than good kingdom then the people who own the resources would gladly hold out and wait for a bad kingdom guy to come for their goods.
Other resources to buy would be food, it might be the best choice. Buying food directly means more stockpiles for you, higher food prices for good kingdom coupled with massive inflation and less food for good kingdom to prosecute a war. Even better: if good kingdom tries to prosecute a war food prices will rise anyway on top of scarcity and inflation, it would probably kill the good kingdom the fastest.
Lastly a risky option: pay the military of good kingdom. If you are rich the rewards of combat pay suddenly is a lot less motivation to risk your life. A portion of Soldiers of good kingdom might just leave when push comes to shove and try to be alive and spending somewhere.
add a comment |Â
It depends on how it's spend, and the culture of the good kingdom.
There was a King in history who went to another country and spend a crapton of gold. This caused the value of gold in that country to go down and with the value of each coin tied to the value of gold it meant everything needed more coins to buy. 2 copper or whatever for a full bread before the gold came in? Now it costs 4 silver. The people who had sold stuff to the King and had gold didnt have too much problems with this, but anyone else would suddenly need to pay multitudes more without earning more or having more in reserve.
Suppose the bad kingdom tries to exploit this: it pays
specific groups of people money for wares and stuff, and ignores other groups. Just living becomes more expensive for everyone which will cause strife in the population. If the divide grows quickly enough and large enough people could revolt, destabilizing the country and making it an easier prey.
While you are at it, buy specific goods. Buying weapons might not be the smartest move as the sellers could just have an easier time getting more weapons. Buying all the ore and resources to build weapons could deplete the good kingdom's resources while destabilizing the economy, and if you offer a higher price for the resources than good kingdom then the people who own the resources would gladly hold out and wait for a bad kingdom guy to come for their goods.
Other resources to buy would be food, it might be the best choice. Buying food directly means more stockpiles for you, higher food prices for good kingdom coupled with massive inflation and less food for good kingdom to prosecute a war. Even better: if good kingdom tries to prosecute a war food prices will rise anyway on top of scarcity and inflation, it would probably kill the good kingdom the fastest.
Lastly a risky option: pay the military of good kingdom. If you are rich the rewards of combat pay suddenly is a lot less motivation to risk your life. A portion of Soldiers of good kingdom might just leave when push comes to shove and try to be alive and spending somewhere.
add a comment |Â
It depends on how it's spend, and the culture of the good kingdom.
There was a King in history who went to another country and spend a crapton of gold. This caused the value of gold in that country to go down and with the value of each coin tied to the value of gold it meant everything needed more coins to buy. 2 copper or whatever for a full bread before the gold came in? Now it costs 4 silver. The people who had sold stuff to the King and had gold didnt have too much problems with this, but anyone else would suddenly need to pay multitudes more without earning more or having more in reserve.
Suppose the bad kingdom tries to exploit this: it pays
specific groups of people money for wares and stuff, and ignores other groups. Just living becomes more expensive for everyone which will cause strife in the population. If the divide grows quickly enough and large enough people could revolt, destabilizing the country and making it an easier prey.
While you are at it, buy specific goods. Buying weapons might not be the smartest move as the sellers could just have an easier time getting more weapons. Buying all the ore and resources to build weapons could deplete the good kingdom's resources while destabilizing the economy, and if you offer a higher price for the resources than good kingdom then the people who own the resources would gladly hold out and wait for a bad kingdom guy to come for their goods.
Other resources to buy would be food, it might be the best choice. Buying food directly means more stockpiles for you, higher food prices for good kingdom coupled with massive inflation and less food for good kingdom to prosecute a war. Even better: if good kingdom tries to prosecute a war food prices will rise anyway on top of scarcity and inflation, it would probably kill the good kingdom the fastest.
Lastly a risky option: pay the military of good kingdom. If you are rich the rewards of combat pay suddenly is a lot less motivation to risk your life. A portion of Soldiers of good kingdom might just leave when push comes to shove and try to be alive and spending somewhere.
It depends on how it's spend, and the culture of the good kingdom.
There was a King in history who went to another country and spend a crapton of gold. This caused the value of gold in that country to go down and with the value of each coin tied to the value of gold it meant everything needed more coins to buy. 2 copper or whatever for a full bread before the gold came in? Now it costs 4 silver. The people who had sold stuff to the King and had gold didnt have too much problems with this, but anyone else would suddenly need to pay multitudes more without earning more or having more in reserve.
Suppose the bad kingdom tries to exploit this: it pays
specific groups of people money for wares and stuff, and ignores other groups. Just living becomes more expensive for everyone which will cause strife in the population. If the divide grows quickly enough and large enough people could revolt, destabilizing the country and making it an easier prey.
While you are at it, buy specific goods. Buying weapons might not be the smartest move as the sellers could just have an easier time getting more weapons. Buying all the ore and resources to build weapons could deplete the good kingdom's resources while destabilizing the economy, and if you offer a higher price for the resources than good kingdom then the people who own the resources would gladly hold out and wait for a bad kingdom guy to come for their goods.
Other resources to buy would be food, it might be the best choice. Buying food directly means more stockpiles for you, higher food prices for good kingdom coupled with massive inflation and less food for good kingdom to prosecute a war. Even better: if good kingdom tries to prosecute a war food prices will rise anyway on top of scarcity and inflation, it would probably kill the good kingdom the fastest.
Lastly a risky option: pay the military of good kingdom. If you are rich the rewards of combat pay suddenly is a lot less motivation to risk your life. A portion of Soldiers of good kingdom might just leave when push comes to shove and try to be alive and spending somewhere.
answered yesterday
Demigan
6,8081537
6,8081537
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
As a short-term move, the Land of Bad might buy up some crucial resource, such as food, ores and even weapons, haul them out of the Land of GoodâÂÂand then blockade it.
Under ordinary circumstances, the Land of Good would now have a lot of gold and use that to import whatever it needs. But, while itâÂÂs under a military embargo, it canâÂÂt do that. ItâÂÂs now facing a sudden and unexpected shortage of critical resources, and all it has is a bunch of useless gold that it canâÂÂt eat or fight with.
The King of the Good had better have foreign allies and good credit. Although maybe the citizens of Bad will happily take gold and trade with the âÂÂenemy.âÂÂ
add a comment |Â
As a short-term move, the Land of Bad might buy up some crucial resource, such as food, ores and even weapons, haul them out of the Land of GoodâÂÂand then blockade it.
Under ordinary circumstances, the Land of Good would now have a lot of gold and use that to import whatever it needs. But, while itâÂÂs under a military embargo, it canâÂÂt do that. ItâÂÂs now facing a sudden and unexpected shortage of critical resources, and all it has is a bunch of useless gold that it canâÂÂt eat or fight with.
The King of the Good had better have foreign allies and good credit. Although maybe the citizens of Bad will happily take gold and trade with the âÂÂenemy.âÂÂ
add a comment |Â
As a short-term move, the Land of Bad might buy up some crucial resource, such as food, ores and even weapons, haul them out of the Land of GoodâÂÂand then blockade it.
Under ordinary circumstances, the Land of Good would now have a lot of gold and use that to import whatever it needs. But, while itâÂÂs under a military embargo, it canâÂÂt do that. ItâÂÂs now facing a sudden and unexpected shortage of critical resources, and all it has is a bunch of useless gold that it canâÂÂt eat or fight with.
The King of the Good had better have foreign allies and good credit. Although maybe the citizens of Bad will happily take gold and trade with the âÂÂenemy.âÂÂ
As a short-term move, the Land of Bad might buy up some crucial resource, such as food, ores and even weapons, haul them out of the Land of GoodâÂÂand then blockade it.
Under ordinary circumstances, the Land of Good would now have a lot of gold and use that to import whatever it needs. But, while itâÂÂs under a military embargo, it canâÂÂt do that. ItâÂÂs now facing a sudden and unexpected shortage of critical resources, and all it has is a bunch of useless gold that it canâÂÂt eat or fight with.
The King of the Good had better have foreign allies and good credit. Although maybe the citizens of Bad will happily take gold and trade with the âÂÂenemy.âÂÂ
answered yesterday
Davislor
2,906714
2,906714
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
You can play on exchange rates of gold and silver in respective countries.
And yes, with a complication twist it happened before, see the Opium Wars.
Simplified, China was selling tea only for silver. When the cheap silver sources in Europe and European colonies was depleted, silver became more expensive (in gold), but China did not care. Hence, the driver of the Opium Wars. The basic scheme was:
- let's buy opium in India for gold, cheaply
- smuggle opium to China, either selling it for a lot of silver or exchanging it to tea directly
- buy tea for cheaply acquired silver
- bring back some (expensive) tea and (expensive) silver to the metropoles
- sell them for gold.
add a comment |Â
You can play on exchange rates of gold and silver in respective countries.
And yes, with a complication twist it happened before, see the Opium Wars.
Simplified, China was selling tea only for silver. When the cheap silver sources in Europe and European colonies was depleted, silver became more expensive (in gold), but China did not care. Hence, the driver of the Opium Wars. The basic scheme was:
- let's buy opium in India for gold, cheaply
- smuggle opium to China, either selling it for a lot of silver or exchanging it to tea directly
- buy tea for cheaply acquired silver
- bring back some (expensive) tea and (expensive) silver to the metropoles
- sell them for gold.
add a comment |Â
You can play on exchange rates of gold and silver in respective countries.
And yes, with a complication twist it happened before, see the Opium Wars.
Simplified, China was selling tea only for silver. When the cheap silver sources in Europe and European colonies was depleted, silver became more expensive (in gold), but China did not care. Hence, the driver of the Opium Wars. The basic scheme was:
- let's buy opium in India for gold, cheaply
- smuggle opium to China, either selling it for a lot of silver or exchanging it to tea directly
- buy tea for cheaply acquired silver
- bring back some (expensive) tea and (expensive) silver to the metropoles
- sell them for gold.
You can play on exchange rates of gold and silver in respective countries.
And yes, with a complication twist it happened before, see the Opium Wars.
Simplified, China was selling tea only for silver. When the cheap silver sources in Europe and European colonies was depleted, silver became more expensive (in gold), but China did not care. Hence, the driver of the Opium Wars. The basic scheme was:
- let's buy opium in India for gold, cheaply
- smuggle opium to China, either selling it for a lot of silver or exchanging it to tea directly
- buy tea for cheaply acquired silver
- bring back some (expensive) tea and (expensive) silver to the metropoles
- sell them for gold.
edited 14 hours ago
answered 17 hours ago
Oleg Lobachev
1,938216
1,938216
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
Yes, imagine that gold represents something like the king's favour.
There's limited gold, the king owns it all, and you need gold to pay your taxes. Thus you need to work for the king to get the gold you need to pay your taxes.
If there's suddenly another source of gold, people no longer work for the king, etc.
add a comment |Â
Yes, imagine that gold represents something like the king's favour.
There's limited gold, the king owns it all, and you need gold to pay your taxes. Thus you need to work for the king to get the gold you need to pay your taxes.
If there's suddenly another source of gold, people no longer work for the king, etc.
add a comment |Â
Yes, imagine that gold represents something like the king's favour.
There's limited gold, the king owns it all, and you need gold to pay your taxes. Thus you need to work for the king to get the gold you need to pay your taxes.
If there's suddenly another source of gold, people no longer work for the king, etc.
Yes, imagine that gold represents something like the king's favour.
There's limited gold, the king owns it all, and you need gold to pay your taxes. Thus you need to work for the king to get the gold you need to pay your taxes.
If there's suddenly another source of gold, people no longer work for the king, etc.
answered yesterday
ChrisW
1,644311
1,644311
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
Obak is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Obak is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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Queue the Rick and Morty ep where Rick sparks the Federation's downfall...
â EvilSnack
yesterday
1
So, does anyone know how much money China has poured into the US as inward investment in the past four decades then? and should we be worried by that :)
â Pelinore
yesterday
1
Not "enemy gold", but read about south american gold in spain here: history.stackexchange.com/questions/9060/â¦
â Guntram Blohm
yesterday
1
Research the Spanish empire around 1600, Phillip the 2nd, and their influx of gold from the new world and how it affected their kingdom.
â Chloe
yesterday